gone for good

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Posts by gone for good

• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  TD -

  Reply (and apology) coming tonight.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  Phizzy -

  We're making headway here!

  Let's visualize a few progressing scenarios...

  You are likely already fading or wondering how to start a fade, PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out)

  You still attend regularly only for personal/family reasons -kids, grandchildren, friendships = PIMO

  You have long stopped contributing financially. not engaging in any"field service", not reporting and not commenting at meetings (so no longer being addressed as Brother, Sister.)

  Your letter has already been written, dated, notarized, and is instantly available.

  You wrote the letter when you were in good standing, so no committees were in progress by the date you penned your letter.

  Your letter contains only these two FACTS: * You have exercised your legal right to freedom of religion as per state/nation laws.

  * Your intent to sue any person or group who contravenes your freedom in any way. -by henceforth collecting, storing or sharing any personal information about you - by any form of ecclesiastical actions directed at you - including but not limited to: * the public announcing of your name or your religious affiliations (or lack thereof) * any attempt to incite others to contravene your freedoms of association, speech, movement and religion as stated by law.# ( Cite the law).......

  Your letter offers no reasons for your choice (unnecessary). contains no inflammatory comments (Unnecessary and unwise),.

  You attend meetings to socialize with family and friends, (you are a real friend to those you love).

  You are not a JW anymore but no one knows this yet - *important point for later*

  You are not suffering persecution from JWs yet.

  You have now claimed for yourself, the very same rights and freedoms the WT proudly boasts to have claimed for itself and its' members...

  Jump in here everyone,.. let's build a bullet proof scenario
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  Phizzy -

  Thanks again for your contributions. Could you clarify your comment:

  :"Just to reiterate what I Posted above, if you are threatened with Disassociation , then this move by the Congregation is NOT Ecclesiastical."

  I am wondering if there is confusion about to whom the term ecclesiastical applies...? or did you mean to state (correctly) that if a person was already in the process of disfellowshipping that it would be too late?

  I mentioned in a previous post your right must be exercised 'while in good standing'. O one of the more known cases (not JWs) was rejected by the court because the ecclesiastical discipline was already in process.

  1. adjective

     relating to the Christian Church or its clergy.

     "the ecclesiastical hierarchy"

     Similar: priestly ministerial clerical

     Ecclesiastical authority is hierarchical hitting bottom with elders (in more ways than one). thus legal recognition of responsibility can go right to the top as doctrine and conduct and enforcement practies originate there.

     Individual rights are not ecclesiastic in any way because they are proffered by the state for the benefit of everyone who claims them.

     Ecclesiastic laws are valid only on church members unless there is a violation of state law. Honor killings, female genital mutilation (FGM) for examples. Shunning is not illegal but the extent to which individuals' rights are violated by it will soon be scrutinized at last.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  TD -

  I have no idea what a UBM might be.

  By the way (BTW) It is considered good etiquette (and good logic) to only use acronyms after having first used the full form of the phrase at the opening of the discussion.

  Why claim to be dumb when you can obviously read?

  In an online interview with one of Ms. Spiess' fellow activists at Info Sekta, the gentleman being interviewed describes the lady as possessing a brilliant intellect coupled with unsurpassed personal courage.

  Watchtower did not attack the activist group, it attacked Ms. Spiess individually.

  She could have capitulated by saying her harsh published criticisms were merely her "opinions' but she bravely defended her statements as all being truthful and thus elevated to being considered as "facts".

  The court exonerated her on all issues-moving her published criticisms from mere opinions (worth nothing at trial) to legally documented facts as acceptable to a court of law.

  The charge of defamation is a CRiMINAL charge in Switzerland and carries huge financial costs along with a criminal record for the person convicted - .

  This lady and her fellows are modern-day heroes of justice - show respect for what they have done and educate yourself.

  if you can't figure out the significance of her exoneration just wait for the flood of human rights litigation against Watchtower/JWs.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  Dubstepped-

  In what way exactly, can timely exercising of a guaranteed civil right be considered a "loophole"?

  In case law - you see that others stumbled at getting courts to care because they were still members of the religious group,when "the sh*t hit the fan" whining about something that they themselves implicitly agreed to -ecclesiastic authority of their chosen group

  Timing ones' claim tof s state-guaranteed right to religious freedom, such that it pre-empts another parties ability to exercise their (former) legal right of ecclesiastic authority over members is no loophole but simply necessary legal practice if the issue wants to ever be settled in courts.

  Timing is and always has been critically important in legal matters. Real estate closures have defined time lines - the violation of which may make a party legally liable, contracts of many types have integrated time frames legally enforcible. Offering a buyer more money for a product after it is already sold is just tough luck for you. Weddings offer a brief time for opposition to the contract- in- progress to be expressed - then the knot is tied. Planes ,trains, and ships are in no way liable if you are late

  Religious membership is voluntary - not contractual as JWs are led to believe. There are no periods of membership enforceable by law. If a person is able to provide a date of their own emancipation the other party has no legal structure from which to challenge a free-will decision on what was always a purely voluntary endeavor.

  WT/JW will never attempt to force ecclesiastic authority on non-members through secular courts.

  Internally, JWs puff themselves up as the only legitimate faith in their imaginary little theocracy,

  But (like every religion in every democracy), they possess no legal power beyond their own shrinking membership.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  Steve2 -

  As always your comment is spot on - thanks for good advice.

  I feel the future of the litigation surrounding this issue of religious rights is going to be so useful and important that no details should be overlooked in preparation for that possibility.

  If class actions come about - easy but careful preparation now might qualify many for quick inclusion as the actions move forward.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  gone for good

  LongHairGal -

  Thanks for elucidating the discomfort that many faders must feel at a kingdom hall. JWs do not really welcome visitors as they rather look to groom victims

  .Glad you're out.

  I've always enjoyed your insights over the years
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  gone for good

  Nitty Gritty -

  Thanks for your input. (My response is really for lurking JWs)

  Discard the term and notion of nuclear as defining what the term family might encompass.
  

  Are not your old parents in another town still family?

  Are young folks who moved away to their first job, or school or just relishing their own independence in a pad of their own or with new friends - are they not still family and deserving of every benefit, protection and comfort that families naturally extend among their members?

  Only a demented cult could publish that disgusting video of the young lady trying to call her god-damaged parents and being intentionally ignored. The self-righteous male asshole pretending that the daily-text drivel is more important than his own daughters need for comfort. Meanwhile, little submissive female asshole imagines that destroying a young persons trust in their own parents is going to drive them straight back into the hateful arms of the same organization that coercively mandates this disgraceful reaction within its members families.

  Truly a vomit inducing perversion of what family should be.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gone for good

  Phizzy-

  a.)Member (wrongdoer) = "JC" = disfellowshipping = this shunning is legal as membership = subjection.to church

  b.)Prior exercise of legal right to quit = instant nonmember = (ecclesiastical?!!) committee = (eccleastical?!!) announcement = (eclesiastically enforced?!!) shunning by even family and loved ones

  Do you see whats legally wrong in the second equation? (Hint) - it's calculated, directed, targetted and enforced ECCLESIASTICAL INTERFERENCE for a NON-MEMBERS entire remaining lifetime!

  This is enforced persecution of an individual by a religion that invented the hateful doctrine just a few decades ago. It is NOT Freedom of or freedom from religion as the Human rights laws intend.

  One of Regina Spiess' exonerated criticisms of JWs is that they collude to force member individuals to forfeit their own rights to religious freedom by coercing them to deny those same rights to others. - thus, the entire process is a violation of everyones' rights, not just for those shunned but those who must shun to avoid the same mistreatment.

  This salient point is that JWs instruct and practice organizational persecution of citizens who have legally gained a chosen religious freedom guaranteed by their states laws. Info Sekt

  If you have already Quit Quietly (while in good standing BTW) and have the documents to prove that you are not a member, you are in good stead to continue to visit the hall, to fraternize with loved ones.

  The idea to quit quietly was to protect those who wished to continue to attend for family, but feared if/when their fade went badly they would be 'apostacised' and DF'd.

  Being an actual, documented nonmember relegates you from ecclesiaical target to "sorry- just a visitor" status.

  Info Sekta has offered assistance to future prosecutors of WT on the basis of WT having violated the rights for violating the rights of blameless individuals.

  I imagine this issue will become far more damaging than even the CSA as far more people have been victims and the WT has already lost so so much credibility.- and their still doing it!
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gone for good

  Sail Away -

  Thank you so much for confirming my whole intent of this thread:

  - that actively exercising your right to religious freedom supersedes the elders former ecclesiastic authority.

  So, with a few well-chosen words, and the undeniable clarity of ink on paper, you pre-empted their usual violations of character and integrity that so define JW judicial proceedings - well done Dianne!.

  Glad to hear that you disavowed any connection with disassociation - what were your reasons for that?

  I assume you claimed this right of religious freedom under some amendment to a constitution or a charter of freedom in one of Satans horrifying liberal democracies and not from any kind of theocratic grace?